HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 07/22/1998t
July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 135
1 MINUTES ®F A SPECIAL MEETING
z PETALUMA CITY C®UNCIL
3 WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 1998
a R®LL CALL 7:00 p.m.
s - Present: Keller, Torliatt, Hamilton, Vice Mayor Maguire
s Absent: Read, Stompe, Mayor Hilligoss
~ City Manager Stouder noted he received a request from Councilmember Read that her statement
a be read into the record.
9 MM should we do that when we get to Item 1? Unless you want to read it in now.
io Fred Stouder - oh you want me to read it?
i i MM or you may submit it to the clerk.
is Fred Stouder whatever is appropriate, placed in the record as written.
is Somebody - to read it when the item is called.
is PLEDGE ®F ALLEGIANCE
is Buzz Weisenfluh led the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.
i6 MGMENT ®F SILENCE
i~ MM just for the record I'd like to comment for the record that I spoke with Councilwoman
i~ Stompe yesterday and encouraged her to come. She is in town. She's pled child care duties.
~9 My girlfriend offered to baby-sit her son. She declined, so
20 URBAN GIt®WTR )8®UNDARY
zi All right unfinished business, Urban Growth Boundary. Pamela would you care to start us off?
22 She's collating.
Zs REVIEW AMENDMENTS
2a Pamela Tuft -.thank you, Vice Mayor Maguire, and Councilmembers, we bring these to you this
zs evening to indicate to you the changes that were the direction of the Council on Monday night.
z6 You took action to set this on the ballot for November, adopted the first resolution calling for a
z~ special election, identified, clarified the question that is going to be put before the voters and
zs you also amended the ballot measure accordingly to reflect you comments and concerns.
zs Subsequent to Monday night's meeting I undertook the changes unfortunately our outside legal
~o counsel was not available at all yesterday so I E-mailed those pages down to them and in true
si legal fashion they have asked for some very very minor fine tuning of the words and of course
s2 had to catch the proverbial typo or two. So I would like to take you very very quickly through
~s your through the document you have before you and identify those proposed changes.
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
tL111T-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
July 22, 1998
Vo1.32, Page 136
i beginning on the packet that was hand delivered to you yesterday page 3 at the very very top
a says "the Petalumas" and please cross out "the" it is tecluucally a type. Page 3 of the ballot
3 measure, I'm sorry
a NIM -What line
s Pamela Tuft - at the very first right
6 Somebody -Page 2
~ Pamela -top of Page 2 it says Number 3 Foster and protect the Petaluma's, please cross out
s `the'. I didn't make a view foil of that cause its
9 Pamela - on page 3 line 21 maintain a parcel specific boundary. This is amending an objective to
io the General Plan and rather than over strike it when typing the amendments my secretary just
ii deleted it and it really needs to correctly reflect what the General Plan now says which says for
r~ the time period of this general Plan and then show it to be stricken so I apologize. but that needs
13 to go back in there and then be over stricken to show that it's being deleted from our General
is Pian. I didn't catch that when I checked it.
is Page 4 at the very very bottom of the page Police 3.2 this was as originally proposed the very
16 very bottom on Line 37 page 4 your original one that you saw had 3.1, 3.2 and 4.1 and I reading
i~ it thought it was an error and deleted it and the attorney says `no' it needs to be in there. So
is I've put it back in. That's just incorporating the single policy so that is now back in.
~9 Somebody -microphone off
zo Pamela -that's exactly right I thought it was redundant to quote Policy 3.2 within Policy 3.2
Zi and the attorney was clarified that for me.
sz Somebody -microphone off
z3 Pamela - I did exactly say that to him tonight. And in the next one you'll understand and the
za next one you'll understand why. ®n the next page 5 what a planner said in one sentence the
as attorney would like to say in three, so to clarify instead of with adding to the paragraph in any
z6 calendar year with a cumulative not to exceed 50 acres within the 20 year period, they -would
~~ not like to word it as circled in red to read if in any year fewer than five acres are brought within
~s the Urban Growth Boundary pursuant to this policy then the unused increment may be brought
29 within the Urban Growth Boundary in subsequent years provided that no more than 50 acres
3o may be brought within the Urban Growth Boundary before December 31, 2018. And this gives
31 an example.
3z NIlVI -that's pretty good I was going to suggest the change that it read in any calendar year with
33 a cumulative maximum of 50 acres and strike not to exceed but since we have pay our counsel
34 we'll go with his advise.
3s Pamela -also what we consider we also picked up about three what I would classify as typo
36 errors I had in the draft that you saw on the 20th excuse me the title affordable housing
37 exception 1 I had It above the letter A and it needs to be `a' subsection and have the title, it's
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember.Ianel~amilton, NR-CouncilmemberNancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-CouneilmemberMaryStompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
July 22, 1998 \Io1.32, Page 137
i not a substantive change and I didn't show it as outlined in red but. all three or all four of the
a exceptions were done the say way and corrected in the same manner.
s Going on to page 7 subsection (1) we are adding for this purpose before December 31, 19 or
a 2018 and that's to be consistent with the same type of phrase that's used in the next paragraph.
s Page 8 we corrected the grammar so that it reads more accurately or corre.. or more proper and
6 that is to say
~ MM -that's actually on page 7 on ours
~ Pamela -yes I'm sorry subsection (c) that the land to be included (1) is immediately adjacent to
v the existing Urban Growth Boundary and (2) can be provided read a little awkward in the
io previous.......... At the request of the
ii PT - I have a question, I wasn't clear what that meant because I believe I made the suggestion
i2 and my suggestion was to,be (spoke away from the microphone) .... that can be provided would
i~ be after connection as opposed to before
is PT -adjacent to because wouldn't you
is Pamela - it could certainly read that the land included (1) is inunediately adjacent to the existing
i6 Urban Growth Boundary and (2) serviceable water and sewer connections can be provided
i~ PT -yes
is Pamela - that'd be fine
~9 PT' - that. to me sounds more better English
zo Pamela -better English certainly we'll fix that
2~ DK -high school English
2z Pamela -good okay we will do that. On page 9
is Somebody talked with microphone off
za Pamela - I thought I did that I'm sorry. At the request of the legal counsel they felt that the
2s word use instead of business was more clear, clearer.
26 Pamela -top of page 9 legal.., somebody talked, yes, to add clarity at the request of the legal
z~ counsel the adding of the word agricultural community and adding the words and economy and
_ 2~ them just for clarity it originally read such amendments maybe adopted only repeating the terms
z9 agricultural or agricultural support use in the very next sentence.
so Somebody talked with microphone off
3i City Clerk - rrune doesn't look like that so I don't know where you are
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-Councilmember MaryStompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 138
i Pamela -that's right that's because I apologize the exception for• agricultural support or related
z development this is a typo `d' if you go back to that on page ~8 dine 27 there is no 2 to that
3 section so technically under proper layout to add a subsection was wrong so I deleted the "1"
4 and ran it as a continuous sentence so Line 29 would read evidence in the record that the lands
s to be included because for we considered that a typo
6 Therefore under `d' you could not have `d' `a' you would have `d" 1' so the a b c and d were
~ changed to 1 2 3 and 4, therefore under `c' or now `3' you could not have ` 1' `2' so we changed
s it to `a' `b'. We considered those typos, I apologize. It is just literally changing no substance. I
9 won't I tried. Again here shows the changing from `1' to `2' `a' to `b' and we will reverse the
io can be provided to the end of the sentence as previously discussed by the Council.
ii Someone spoke with a microphone off
~2 Pamela - As far as the ballot measure yes, sir.
13 DK -one question on thought I had mentioned it but if ][ didn't let's make sure that it makes
14 sense on page 2, of today's draft where future section `c' where future General Plan dates line
is 27 , 6, 7 is it accurate to say that if the new General Plan contains a Urban Growth Boundary
i6 that differs from the established by this measure then the new Urban Growth Boundary will
i~ become effective, or is it if the new General Plan proposes the proposed ugb will become
is effective
iv I~IlVI -the proposed
zo DK -the proposed Urban Growth Boundary become effective
zi NIlVI - or even the proposed
z2 three people talking -can't decipher
23 DK - can a General Plan contain at this point a Urban Growth Boundary without a ballot? or
Za would just be proposing Urban Growth Boundary?
zs Pamela - it would be proposes
26 DK -and then the same on line 27
a~ Pamela - so it will read if the new General Plan .proposes a:n Urban Growth Boundary that differs
zs from that established by this measure the new proposed Urban Growth Boundary will become
z9 effective upon approval by a vote of the people.
3o DK -thank you.
31 Pamela -thank you
32 Pamela -okay that is the end of the ballot measure corrections
Key to abbreviations: JH-CouncilrrremberJane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Pat;•icia Hilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 139
i PT - Mr. Mayor I just had one question on page 3 line 1, should that July 20 be July 20 or (can't
z understand what was saidl
3 MM - we actually did make the adoption on July 20
a Pamela -July 20
s PT -location of the Urban Growth Boundary shall be identical to ???as of July ?? 1998. Okay
6 just wanted to make sure.
~ Pamela - so Resolution 1 that was shown on your agenda was as per your action motion if you
s agree with this the wordings as the reflective of the consensus and direction of the Council with
9 the minor fine tuning corrective grammar of this evening attachment 4 which is a resolution
io directing the City Attorney to prepare an impartial analysis the legal counsel has asked that the
i i words on line 16 be changed from set forth to referenced
iz Someone spoke away from a microphone
~3 Pamela -yes
is PT - 116
is Pamela -that will reference the resolution number when it's given a resolution number. The one
i6 you adopted Monday had . a transposed numbers December 13 instead of December 31 it was
~~ considered a typo and can be changed without
is MM -any other changes
i9 Pamela - no sir
20 JH -can we move all of these at once?
Zi City Clerk -the other question is who is going to write the arguments
z2 Pamela -right, the last amendment is the legal counsel has asked that I more clearly identify
23 Exhibit A2 by providing a title across it that will be printed much more attractively than my
za handprinting. It will say Potential Urban Growth Boundary Expansion Areas.
zs More tallting with rrucrophone off
z6 Pamela - no, black and white on the ballot
z~ AT.TTHORS OF' SUPPORTING ARGi3MENTS
2s We do need you to discuss, you did on Monday afternoon who is going to write the argument
29 that are set forth in the resolution and then take action on resolutions asking for consolidated
so election, identifying who is writing the arguments and the third is directing., the attorney to
si prepare an impartial analysis.
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-Councilmember MaryStompe
DK Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Dice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
140 July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 140
;ry
a MM - so Council who vvoul'i like to be author ~ ~~`~~ '~
z DK -this format here
s Pamela. -four attachments we just wanted to show you the wording for the one you adopted on
a Monday. Attachment #1 was the motion made and passed on Monday. Yes, what did I do?
s JI~I - ok so do we need to decide who is going to write it.
6 M1LI - I think that would be appropriate here.
~ JIi - I would like to be one of the people but I don't want to be the only one.
s PT - I would be happy to participate as well. Do we all want to.
s DK - between now and Tuesday, sure
io MM -since you`re going to be absent
n JH -when is it due?
iz Somebody -same as the other
is Richard Taylor, - I just want to make sure the Council understands this is an optional item. You
is do not have to prepare the ballot argument if the Council chooses not to. There is a process
~s whereby members of the public can submit them. I just want to make sure you are aware of that
i6 choice.
i~ MM -thank you Richard
is I am willing to be an author as well so you know if it's a burden on you David it's
~9 7II -you can have up to four people be the authors
zo MM -and DK five
zi JH -well let's all four just pass it around
zz MM - do you all want to do that
zs DK -let me ask you is if this council selects authors for t:he ballot argument does that preclude
za having somebody from the public as well sign on to those arguments or participate in writing
zs them?
z6 Richard Taylor -participating in them and writing them however the authors that the Council
z~ has designated can work with members of the public however they choose. In terms of the
zs signature on the ballot arguments, I can't tell you right now whether another member of the
z9 public can participate. What I would recommend is that you if you are interested in having that
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councibnernber Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
July 22, 199s Vo1.32, Page 141
i as an option you indicate as much in the resolution and we can investigate whether that's
z allowed or not in the Elections Code.
3 MM -Lisa do you know off hand?
a ??? Couldn't her any words here.
s 1VIlVI - so basically you end up with one argument with up to five Council signatures or possibly
6 a combination of Council and public party signatures.
~ Lisa Goldfein - or all public
s JH -and then who writes the ballot argument against it
9 Richard Taylor -the Council could choose to write a ballot argument against it if it wishes, if it
io does not community groups can submit the arguments and there ~s an order of priority
ii depending on the nature of the entity that is submitting the argument that is set forth the
iz Elections Code.
is DK - if there is an argument against and there is a rebuttal then there's an opportunity
is City Clerk -there are no rebuttals as part of the process. In the past we have adopted
is resolutions saying there is an argument for and an argument against but we haven't adopted
i6 resolutions on rebuttals. WE could adopt one .
i~ Richard Taylor -the Elections Code certainly allows this ability
is MM -why don't we just discuss how many of us want to sign on
i9 DK, JH, PT -I'll sign on to it
zo NIlVI - so the four of us will sign on and do we wish to allow a public person
zi DK - if that is possible, I would like to allow that as well
zz ?? Sure
z3 PT -can that person come forward before August 14 if they so chose
za 1vIlVI -well they would have to
zs JH -they have to be at the Elections Department at the County
z6 PT - do I have to name that person right now or are we allowed to
z~ MM -probably something that falls under the perview of the
zs Richard Taylor - what I would recommend is that the Council say a fifth person to be selected
zv by the four and that way the four
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember.Iane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-Councilmember MaryStompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
142 July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 142
1
2
3
4
s
6
s
9
to
11
lz
13
14
is
16
17
is
19
20
21
2z
23
24
2s
26
27
2s
MM -okay s-.. , .
Richard Taylor - if that's permissible
JH-..
FS -and the four could do that without further council action.
Richard Taylor -without further Council action.
DK -and so that if it's
Richard Taylor -actually that's a the four may have a difficult time discussing this becau:
would be a quorum of the Council. So I would suggest that it be three
JH - I was wondering about
MM - is there a volunteer in the audience that would
Somebody - is this in writing the argument?
Richard Taylor -well the
MNY - as Richard is saying we can have anybody it just that we choose to have assist us.
talking about signatories on the argument.
Richard Taylor - in terms of signatories on the argument, there somebody outside the
would be at the lower end of the priority list of who was eligible to be involved wi
argument.
JH - I'd like to remain one of the three
DK -sure please do
JI~i - on the who
IVIlVI -did we say four
JH - no it can't be four because that's a quorum and you can't
DK -three
At least 3 were talking at once and it was difficult to decipher
7Ii -Piece of paper
MM - I understood differently I understood that we could have four of us as signatories b~
if we want a fifth person we cannot convene to choose that person because that woulc
gown Act violation however, we could, if I understand you right, Richard, at this point
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Ifamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy head
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
that
e are
1 the
that
be a
July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 143
i than we wish to have a fifth signature and staff, for instance, could talk with a public member a
z member of the public or a body such as Greenbelt Alliance or something if they indicated and
s coordinate such a
a PT -but that's a different issue than what we are talking about, what we are talking about is
s writing the ballot measure and four of us can't meeting and write a ballot measure together so
6 one of the four of us would not be able to meet
~ ILK e would be a signatory but not at a meeting to write. Xou know I am concerned that we
s don't step over the line of the Brown Act and I am also concerned that if we are going to add a
9 member of the public that it be done is some way that meets all the requirements of the law and
io I'm I don't want to tread in any delicate waters on this one and it might be just cleaner and
~i simpler to just say it'll be written by the four of us and signed by the four or signed by the four
tz of us and leave it at that.
i3 JH -isn't it going to be an issue of the four how are the four going to communicate
is DK - I will sign what the three of you write, let's put it that way.
rs Richard Taylor -that would be if
~6 (again several spoke at once and there is difficulty in pulling the statements out of the sounds)
i~ JH -because we can't even send it back and have you send it back have you send it back that's
is the four of us communicating about City business.
~9 NIlVI -well why don't we just have the three of us
zo (more multiple speakers)
zi JH..
zz MM -three of us write in cooperation with the public entities or members of the public, if that's
z3 the case though I would like to be a signator
za DK -I'll as I said I'll throw my signature on and I'll trust you guys to write a good argument,
zs you don't have to I'll be out of town. It's irrelevant, ...
z6 MNI -would that be appropriate under the Brown Act, Richard? I mean if we're not
z~ communicating
zs Richard Taylor - if you are not communicating and the Council has delegated this responsibility
z9 to the members of the Council it would be my opinion that it isn't even it's not city business that
3o is putting this argument on the ballot, it is the Council saying these members of the Council have
st the job of doing this and it is not an action of the City.
3z MM -okay thank you. then, let's put
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilrember Na»cy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
X44 July 22, 1998 ~ ~ Vo1.32, Page 144
i. DK - if there is any language in the resolution that needs. to reflect~'tliat or does that just go as a
z motion or is there anything that we need to put into the record on this.
s Richard Taylor - we need to submit it to the City Clerk
a FS - can I ask for a clarification? That then it doesn't make any difference if two or them or
s four of them write it or if they meet or if they pass it around
6 Richard Taylor -correct
~ FS - do they still have the option to
s PT -wait that's not what I just heard
s lY1NI - we are not going to meet but what Richard is saying
io PT - can I clarify it because that's not what I just heard, what I heard was three of us were going
i i to meet and write it and one Councilmember would sign onto what we wrote ~
iz FS -yes
is MM -Councilmember what Richard just said is that because it is not City business that we are
fl4 transacting it doesn't fall under the Brown Act. Is that correct, Richard
is Richard Taylor -correct
i6 FS - so you're acting as individuals and the Brown Act doesn't apply whether they pass it
i~ around twos, threes or fours, or whether they meet twos threes or fours.
is Richard Taylor -that is correct
~9 FS -as citizens
~o Richard Taylor -however, I would
ai JII -we're not going to meet as a four
z2 Richard Taylor -I would advise the Council
z~ (multiple voices again)
za FS -trying to figure out whether you are acting as Councilmembers or you are acting as citi
zs City Clerk - Councilmembers have first priority under the Election Code
zs Richard Taylor -exactly
s~ (someone spoke with a microphone off)
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, Mr Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
s.
duly 22, 1998
JH -we're not going to
2 PT -that's why we're
s 3H -we're saying
a PT - ....
s JH -one will sign to it and we are not going to meet
6 someone with microphone office
~ JII -even three of us won't meet
Vo1.32, Page 145
s 1VIl~I -okay
9 FS - so regardless of what the priority of the legal is the position and official action is three of
io them are going to write four are going to sign
ii Richard Taylor -that's what the resolution should reflect, it should. reflect that fact.
iz FS -and three have been identified. then the issue which you maybe have already closed I want
is to make sure it is clear, the issue of whether there is a fifth, is there going to be a fifth member
fl4 or not and how is that fifth member going to be chosen? Is there going to be a fifth signatory.
is MM - we indicated having an interest in having a fifth signature and we would presumably do
~6 that on the registrar of voters
i~ FS -how would that person be chosen
is PT - I was going to ask Pat how is it normally done
i9 City Clerk - I have never heard of it being done this way
zo FS - what I have seen done in other in process in other states, it sounds like all is basically the
zi same is that names are submitted to the Council and the Council chooses. Now sometimes only
22 one persons submits and sometimes 50. But that someone makes a determination of there's
s3 three slots or seven slots. Who makes that determination if there is a fifth person as a signator?
2a The three
zs Richard Taylor - No I believe that the additional signatory would need to be designated by the
a6 Council
a~ FS - as Council action
2s Richard Taylor - as Council action
i9 DK -you know I'm going to make it a lot easier, let's skip it. I don't want to get into trouble
30 on having to figure out how to get the mechanics cleared out. of how to get a fifth person on and
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember,Iane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM--vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
146 July 22, 1998 ~ Vo1.32, Page 146
..~
n risk whether it's the newspaper or somebody else challenging'the process on it. I don't th
2 worth it.
it's
3 MM -what getting a fifth person
a I)K - getting a person, to have a fifth person sign on from the public, I don't think it's worth the
s risk. It would be nice to have, we're not clear on the process could be
6 JH - I don't want it to get hung up
7 ILK -let's not hang it up on that I, the question occurs to me, is on Monday we authorized the
s writing of language and signing by five Councilmembers on the ballot for Council pay. Okay.
9 That language was to be written by we didn't go through that process at all.
no MM, JH -yes, we did.
u ILK -it's written by how many people .
i2 (Multiple voices)
n3 MM -Jane and I were
na ILK -all right so in terms of approval of that language is there Council action to approve that
is language or is it signed on by individual, it's the same thing as we did on Monday for Council
i6 pay. We have five signatories who agreed to sign on to that.
i7 somebody said - we didn't have five
is DK -yes the Mayor agreed.
n9 Somebody -you're right.
ao ILK -the Mayor agreed to sign. So there are five signatories on that argument. What's the
Zi mechanics if I don't know if it's anything different but is that illegal.
22 MM -what's you recollection on once the argument i:> written is it circulated back to the
23 Council for approval. It seems to me that the last time I wrote the ballot argument, ~t was
za circulated and it was accepted as it was.
is PT -how about this before we hash this thing to death, can we vote on who is going to write the
z6 ballot argument at a later point in time.
z7 JAI -this is the last day that it can be done. To write the ballot argument when is because there
Zs is a ballot argument against, as well as for.
z9 PT -because you can do it
so ~ -some members of the Council would like to write a ballot argument against it. When
3i would they have to make that decision.
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, M.5' Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT=Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
Juiy 22, 199
City Clerk -that's up to them
a JH -when is the deadline
3 City Clerk -it's the same for everybody. August 14.
a JH -when does the Council action have to happen?
Vo1.32, Page 147
s City Clerk -today
6 JH - I mean the Council action for the, does the Council have to take action in order for some to
~ make a decision to write the ballot argument. So it could happen anywhere from the 27th to the
$ 3rd it could happen anywhere up to the 14th?
9 IVIM - no
io City Clerk - I believe it has to happen the same time they are calling the election on that
i i particular issue.
i2 JH -okay that's what I wanted to understand.
is MM -whoever wants to write an opposing argument you might like anybody else can submit to
is the Registrar of voters
is City Clerk - No, to me
i6 MM -okay to the City Clerk and say I want to write that argument and as Richard's saying
i7 there is a list of priorities as to who gets the first crack at it. So if they
is JH - so do they then have to pay
i9 IVIlVI -excuse me let me finish, if they approach you after tonight's date would it be simply as a
zo citizen and therefore the argument
zi City Clerk -there is more or less a pecking order that's listing in the Election Code as to who
22 authors of the argument would be and as to who the City Clerk chooses. I have never seen
23 more than one argument come in on an issue for and against.
za 1VIN1- I'm just curious if somebody does submit an opposing argument what the rules of that
as City Clerk - if two Council people chose to write an argument against, I think that I would be
~6 obligated to select that argument.
2~ MM - I would think so. But would they have up until the 14th to submit. And the law requires
as that I have to advertise in the local paper and give notice to the public that when the decision is
2s to be in made and in
3o DK -the ballot argument in favor, however, is r
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton,
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss,
DK- Councilmember David Keller,
MM--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire
CC-City Clerk Bernard
iot that's not available to the public to review
NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
FS-City Manager Stouder
148 July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 148
1 City Clerk - it's not available until the deadline
2 DK -nobody can see anybody else's argument. I think I'd like to keep this as simple as possible,
3 if there are four signatures here who would like to sign the argument let's put that in the
a resolution. It can be written by one, two, three of you. I peel out of that process and leave it
s there and let's keep it simple.
6 MM - my personal preference is to have a fifth either a let me finish, either a fourth non-Council
~ or a fourth and fifth signatories, we've got citizens groups who've been very involved in tlv~s and
s I tlink if they are interested in signing on to this it would be an important addition to the ballot
9 argument. If we direct staff that that is our direction and ask them to see if there is a willingness
to there under the rules by which this is done and they are willing to do that I would prefer bus to
11 pursue that path, if we ask them to do this and under the rules that operate here and it cannot be
12 done then we say fine we just sign ourselves
13 DK -Matt the question is then when is this going to be dome? I'm gone, Jane's gone.
la MM -well you're gone, you're not participating in the writing of it so
is ILK -that's correct
16 JII - no I'll be back on the 2nd
17 ILK - so the question to me is I don't want to be in a situation where we have a 3:3 split on
1R approving language or approving who is going to vote on this.
19 ~ MM - I don't believe there that that
20 City Clerk - I think that. if you are selected you have the authority to write it
21 MM - I don't see where that could happen
22 Pamela Tuft - if I could qualify if you proceed as you are going what I would suggest we do in
23 the resolution that is before you is list all four but after Councilmember Kelley's name put in
2a parentheses signatory thereto only. So that it's very clear that you're not writing it, you're not
2s but you are a signatory
26 PT -and we are taking action on it
27
2s
29
30
31
32
MM -when we get to that point I would like to complete the discussion on the point I have
raised., which is if we direct staff and it can be done under the rules and it is not
JH -let's find out if it can be
MM - in danger of a 3:3 split or
Richard Taylor - Mr. Mayor we've reviewed the Elections Code and the authority
arguments to be filed by authorized members of the legislative body or members of the pu
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-Counci/memberMaryStompe
DK Councilmember David Keller, P7=Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MINI--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
for
July 22, 1998
t MM -it's either or
Vo1.32, Page 149
z Richard Taylor -either or
s PT - as far as the concern for Brown Act in drafting this we're taking action on it tonight so it
a doesn't have to come back to the Council for approval of language, we're saying yes we're
s going to do it now.
s MM - I understand
~ Richard Taylor - correct
s MM -then let's adopt it as Pamela has suggested that David is signatory
9 DK -and not writing
io MM - could I have a motion for the
ii JH - yeah I no we don't need a motion we don't need to pass #1 right We did that
i2 Pamela - we would like a consensus that the amendments the fine tuning and the grammar
is corrections that we showed you tonight that this does reflect the consensus and direction from
to Monday and that was your intent and that's perfect.
is DK -you want that as the motion
~6 City Clerk -adopting these is sufficient
t~ RES®. 98-152 NCS REQUESTING C®NS®LIDA'I'ION ®F MEASURE
is JH - I'd like to make the motion that we pass resolution requesting consolidation with the
is November election.
zo MM - is there a second
2~ PT -I'll second
22 MM -vote please
2s Ayes: Keller, Torliatt, Hamilton, Vice Mayor Maguire
2a Noes: None
2s Absent: Read, Stompe, Mayor Hilligoss
z6 City Clerk- that's unanimous with three present, four present
2~ RES®. 98-153 NCS AUB'1~ORIZE ARGUMENTS ~T SUPP®RT ®F MEASURE
2a DK -I'll move submission authorizing submission of written arguments
29 MM - is there a second
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
~ '-c
150 July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 150
t PT -I'll second
2 MM -thank you
3 Ayes: Keller, Torliatt, Hamilton, Vice Mayor Maguire
a Noes: None
s Absent: Read, Stompe, Mayor Hilligoss
6 RESOe 98-fl54 NCS REQITES'T ATTORNEY -IMPARTIAL ANALYSIS
~ M1~1-and do I have a final
g DK -just that note on there that under the resolution on that is I would be a signator only
9 PT -and I'll make that motion on attachment #3
to DK -that was part of it
tt PT - I'm sorry
t2 NII\R -Resolution directing the City Attorney to prepare art impartial analysis
t3 PT -okay, yes
t4 Iv1NI - is there a second
is JH -yes
t6 FS -and what action did you take on opposing arguments.
t~ DK -none it's up to whoever wants to enter that
is COUNCILMEMBER REAI9 MESSAGE
t9 MM -before we conclude MI'. Stouder would you please read into the record
20 Read's
21
22
23
24
2s
26
a~
2s
29
30
FS -yes, Councilmember Read FAXed to the City Council this morrting the following comments
to have read into the record, "Due to previously scheduled work assignment I will be unable to
attend the tentatively scheduled City Council meeting of July 22, 1998. If a meeting is held I will
be voting "no" on all four attached resolutions regarding a proposed 20-year Urban Growth
Boundary to be placed on the November 3, 1998, ballot. The process of updating the General
Plan should occur first, combined with a complete fiscal analysis." Signed Nancy Read. I
apologize for the stopping of my reading, my contacts are not focusing. That's not. part of what
she wrote. She also asked if her understanding or clarification of her understanding based upon
Roberts Rules of Order if she could have if she could have official vote within ten days of this
meeting, something allows that.
3t PT -that what?
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember.7ane Hamilton, 1VR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, M.%Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
ILRvI--Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS'-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
July 22, 199 `Io1.32, Page 15fl
i FS :Robert's Rules of Order she was recollecting that would allow her to have an official
z registered voter within ten days of this meeting
3 DK -you mean to add her vote to the record
a FS -and her vote would be `no' I'm not reading this into the record also but it's a new one to
s me.
6 JH -you could vote by proxy,
~ FS -she would have
s JH - I would be very interested in hearing about that
9 FS -she was asking that question based upon having
io JH -she could vote in ten days
ii FS - if she could have her vote officially as part of the vote recorded here in addition to me, of
iz course, reading this into the record.
is DK -two people talking couldn't decipher
is MM -could we ask our Counsel please to
is DK - it would make some very interesting changes of votes if that ever were to be part of the
i6 JII - if that's true I would like to know
i~ Lisa Goldfein - I don't know offhand, but I'll look into it.
is FS - I wanted to raise, she asked me to ask the City Attorney that or Roberts Rules of Order
i9 I wanted to do that officially ask the question on her behalf.
zo PT - we need to know that
zi DK -that would make some extraordinary parliamentary maneuvers possible. I have always
zz understood you've gotta be physically present for your vote to be recorded, otherwise it
zs recorded as absent. Otherwise rather than selling my space here for the next month I was going
za to rent it per the recommendation of the Manager.
zs FS -City Manager recommends that you rent your vote. City Manager told a story about a
z6 Councilman in Louisiana that said he vote wasn't for sale, but it was for rent.
z~ MM -any other comments on this issue.
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Ha~uilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. PatriciaHilligoss, MS-Councilmember MaryStompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, PT-Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
152 July 22, 1998 Vo1.32, Page 152
1 DK - I do have one question which is in just so that in terms of procedures for us as a body, in
2 the future as resolutions are sitting on the table, who is taking responsibility that we make sure
s to cover each of the resolutions that is on the agenda?
a FS -it's really my responsibility to be sure that we are all doing that, but that is my
s responsibility.
6 MM - I would hope all members of the staff would assist in that charge as well.
~ City Clerk (to DK) -will you be back in sufficient time to sign the argument?
s DK -No
9 MM - then I think that we need to revisit this question.
to DK -unless you want to FAX it to me and I'll sign. Does it have to be an original.
11 City Clerk - we will send you the argument to sign and request that you incorporate your
12 original signature when you return.
13 DK -I'll get you a FAX number. You can FAX it to me and I'll sign it.
fl4 7H -don't forget, you'll have so much fun
Is MM - is there any report from the City Manager? Then I will adjourn the meeting.
16 ADJOURN
17 At 8:50 p.m. the meeting was adjourned
la
19
20
21
22
23 ATTEST:
2a
r'
2s
F j
26 ~~
27 atricia E. Bernard, City Clerk
Key to abbreviations: JH-Councilmember Jane Hamilton, NR-Councilmember Nancy Read
PH-Mayor M. Patricia Hilligoss, MS Councilmember Mary Stompe
DK- Councilmember David Keller, P7=Councilmember Pamela Torliatt
MM-Vice Mayor Matt Maguire FS-City Manager Stouder
CC-City Clerk Bernard
L ~ f I
Matt Magui e, 'Vice a ' r