HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 09/16/1996September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 75
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2 MINiJTES OF A REGULAlt M~ETING ~ ~~
3 P~TALiJMA CITY COiJNCII. ~~
4 MONDA~, SEPTEIVIBEI~ 16,1996 ~ ~~'
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ROI.L CALL 7:00 p.m.
Present: Maguire, Hamilton, Barlas, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
Absent: Mayor Hilligoss
PLEI)GE OF ALLEGIANCE
11 The pledge of allegiance was led by Jim Carr
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13 1VIOIVIENT' OI'+ SIL,ENCE
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15 • Pi1~I,IC CO11VI1VIEN~T
16 Jack Balshaw once again spoke to the Council regarding a vicious dog that is loose in his neighborhood.
17 He would like this resolved as soon as possible.
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19 Jerry Price, 775 Baywood Drive would like to volunteer to be on the Lafferty Committee. He also spoke
2o for Bruce Osterlye.
21 Skyler Timko, 501 Bryce Canyon Court, stated that access to Lafferty has nothing to do with Moon Ranch
22 or any other regional park. He does not want limited access to Lafferty.
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24 Joe Manthy, Men and Women for Gender Justice, stated that Carole Barlas was hypocritical and that she
25 was quoted in the Argus Courier when she was elected in 1992 as saying some things that he would like
26 her to take back.
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28 Doug Dailey, 320 Pleasant Street, stated that Janice Cader Thompson, Sheri Cardo and he have been
29 plaintiffs in a suit against the Mayor and Councilmembers Read, Shea and Stompe known as the Brown
3o Act Case. The City Attorney, Rich Rudnansky has made us an offer on behalf of the City and the City
31 Councilmembers that if we drop the Brown Act suit they would be willing to rescind Ordinance 1948
32 NCS. We want to accept this offer. This acceptance is based on the fact that you have already rescinded
33 the freeze on Lafferty. And so as of today we have dropped the suit against the Mayor and three
34 Councilmembers, and we will drop the remaining part of the suit which concerns the issue of Ordinance
35 1948 NCS and we'll do that pursuant to the rescinding of Ordinance 1948 NCS.
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COUNCIL COIVIlVIEN'T
~ Councilmembex ~arlas, in response to Joe Manthy. Collabaration needs to be gender free and
collaboration can be inhibited whether it's men or women trying to collaborate. I do think there are
43 differences between men and women. I think that women's style of leadership tends to be different than
44 Bnen's style of leadership. Men and women together can compliment each other in strong leadership.
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September 16, 1996
1 Councilmember Shea would like to agendize the vicious dog problem that Jack Balshaw brought to the
2 attention of the council.
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4 Councilmember Read would also like to deal with the dog issue. She would like to adjourn tonight's
5 meeting in memory in former Councilmember Bill Perry.
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7 Councilmember Maguire thought staff was given direction to resolve the vicious dog issue. It has come
8 to his attention that Sears Point Raceway is proposing a large sign at Sears Point which is going to be
9 approximately 12' high and 40' wide. He requested a letter be sent to the appropriate party stating that
l0 this is not appropriate for the rural character of a gateway into the county.
11
12 Councilmember Hamilton, was surprised to read City Manager John Scharer's comment in the Argus
13 Courier that perhaps we could have the Access to Lafferty Committee also pursue Moon Ranch. She
14 believes that is a policy decision that the council will make and that Lafferty Ranch and Moon Ranch are
15 separate issues and should be kept separate. .~She would also like an answer from staff about the question
16 that was brought up last week concerning the sign in front of Lafferty Ranch that says "You Cannot Pass
17 Without Permission by the Owner" She would like to know who put that sign up and what the Civil Code
18 is that it refers to.
19
2o M~NUTES
21 ' 1. The minutes of September 3 were approved as amended. Pa~e 63, Line 14, Page 65, Line 20 ~i 28
22 change Chairman to Vice Mayor and Mayor, Page 64 Line 301et the record show that Mr.
23 Harberson's characterization of the public fighting over the Lafferty issue is inaccurate. The Citizens
24 for Lafferty wrote to Supervisor Harberson stating their support for pursuing and acquiring Moon
25 Ranch demonstrating that there is support in the community. ~
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27 Nancy Read would like a verbatim of the minutes to add as an addendum to September 3 so that the
28 testimony from Supervisor Harberson is in the record.
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30 ` The minutes of September 9 were approved as amended. Page 72 Line 26 change Gardiner to Gardner.
31 Page 72 Line 33 should add County Study for Moon Ranch $5,000.
32
33 PROCLAMATIONS
34 Hewlett-Packard Company was congratulated on their successful Community Grant Program and thanked
35 for their generous donation of computer equipment for the Lucchesi Park Senior Center.
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37 Petaluma Health Care District Golden Anniversary to be held on. September 27,28 & 29.
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39 Pollution Prevention Week September 16-22.
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41 COI~1S~1~T'~" CAI.EI~1I)AR
42 The following items which are noncontroversial and which have been reviewed by the City Council and
43 staff were enacted by one motion which was introduced by Matt Maguire and seconded by Nancy Read
44 AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Barlas, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe .
45 NOES: None
46 ABSENT: lViayor Hilligoss ,
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Vol. 30 Page 77
RESO. 96-261 NCS
CL,AIIVV~S A1VI) ~Ig,I,S
Resolution 96-261 NCS approving Claims and Bills No. 58109 through 58475,
12ES0. 96-2621vC5
TWIN CREEKS PHASE 1& 2 FINAI,1VgAPS
Resolution 96-262 NCS approving Final Maps for Twin Creeks Subdivision Phases 1 and 2 including
abandoning surplus right-of-way of Ellis Street Extension (Holly Lane).
RESO. 96-263 NCS
BENSON ESTATES SUBI)IVISION ]EXTENSION
Resolution 96-263 NCS approve extending the improvement performance time to Bodega Vista
Associates for the Final Map approval of Benson Estates Subdivision.
RESO. 96-264 NCS
COMPLETION OF ROAI)WAY IL,LUMINATION PROJECT #9884
Resolution 96-264 NCS accepting completion of the Roadway Illumination Project No. 9884 of
McDowell between Corona Road and Old Redwood Highway. The contractor for said work was Morton
Smith Electrical, Inc., 955 Piner Place, Santa Rosa, CA 95403 for the amount of $141,447.05.
~SO. 96-265 NCS
PiJRCI~ASE POLICE VEI~ICI.ES
Resolution 96-265 NCS authorizing purchase of five (5) 1996 Ford Crown Victoria police vehicles from
Henry Curtis Ford for $116,422.50.
12ES0. 96-266 NCS
ES'I'ABI.ISgi CI,ASSIFICAT'ION ~OR PARK 1VIAIN'I'ENANCE SUPERVISOR
Resolution 96-266 NCS authorize modification to the classification of Park Maintenance Supervisor to
meet the requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act and the current duties required by the Parks
and Recreation Director.
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September 16, 1996
ItESO. 96-267 NCS
RECYCLING MARK~T I)EVELOPMENT ZONE
Resolution 96-267 NCS authorizing expansion of the Recycling Nlarket Development Zone to include
Lake County, City of Clearlake, and the City of Lakeport. -
RESO. 96-268 NCS
ANTIOUE FAIRE STREET CLOSURE
Resolution 96-268 NCS approving closure of Kentucky Street & Fourth Streets between Washington
Street and "B" Street and closure of "A" Street lot side & Mary Street between Kentucky Street &
Petaluma Blvd. No for the Petaluma Antique Faire on SeptembeB• 29.
R~SO. 96-269 NCS
1996-97 BUDGET
Resolution 96-269 NCS adopting the revised FY 95-96 Budget and the FY 96-97 Budget.
ORID. 2030 NCS
APPROPRIATING ~'UNDS FY 96-97
Ordinance 2030 NCS Introduce and adopt urgency ordinance appropriating funds for the FY 96-97
budget. . .
* * * * * End Consent Calendar * * * * *
Ord. 2029 NCS
TELECO1VIMiJNICATION FACII.ITIES REGiJLATgONS
Adopt Ordinance 2029 NCS creating Section 14.44 of the Petaluma Municipal Code to provide
development criteria and regulations for telecommunication and related facilities. Introduced by Nancy
Read, seconded by Carole Barlas
AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Barlas, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mayor Hilligoss
LAFFER'TY COMMyTTEE -MAKE-UP ~
Bruce I~agata, 145 Grevillia, He does not want to combine the Lafferty Access Committee with a Moon
Ranch committee. I-ie feels if there is going to be a number of people on the Lafferty Access Committee
the Citizens for L,afferty should be allowed to select a majority of inembers or provide a pool of names
from which the majority of inembers could be selected. He also feels there should be a representative
from the Sonoma Mountain area, and his daughter would like to volunteer as a student intern.
Hank Zucker, 15 Live Oak Court, wants to volunteer to be on the Lafferty Access Committee.
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September 16, 1996 ' Vol. 30 Page 79
I Robert Ramirez, He would like the committee to be a large open process. He would also like to volunteer
2 to be on the Lafferty Access Committee.
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4 Will Stapp, 48 Jess Street, does not want to link Moon Ranch and Lafferty Ranch. He has been touring
5 other open space properties between Marin and Sonoma. He would like to see a regional park established.
' He would like to encourage the council to start to consider adopting a policy of working with the Open
Space District to encourage them to adopt a fee simple purchase policy.
. Mark Medeiros, 200 Jessie Lane, he would like to serve on the Lafferty Access Committee.
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I 1 Peter DeKramer, 515 Western Avenue, he_ would like to have a five step process in making appointments
12 to the Lafferty Access Committee. Call for volunteers and letters - post dates for public interviews - hold
13 public presentations(interviews) - allow for public response on candidates - appointments.
14
15 Janice Cader Thompson, 732 Carlsbad Court, she has already sent a letter of interest in to be a part of this
16 committee. Lafferty has always been used by people in this community. ~Ier family has been a part of
17 this community for 85 years. She has heard her uncles and other relatives talk about going up to Lafferty
18 with Petaluma High School. Many of the older generation has visited Lafferty on numerous occasions.
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20 David Keller, I Street, he would like to serve on the Lafferty Access Committee. As the council considers
21 the task to assign this committee remember the ordinance mandates providing access under a Best
22 Management Practices Plan. Charge this group with providing an interim Access Policy in advance of the
23 long term policy.
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25 The Council discussed several different makeup's for a committee.
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A motion was made by Councilmember Hamilton, and seconded by Nancy Read to have the following
people form the Lafferty Access Committee: Two Councilmembers, 1 Park & Recreation representative,
1 Planning representative, 2 Sonoma Mountain property owners, and 11 citizens who want to work for
access to Lafferty.
AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Barlas, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mayor Hilligoss
It was the consensus of the Council to set October 4, 4:00 p.m. as the deadline to receive letters stating the
applicant's interest in access to Lafferty, and knowledge of the issue. Interviews will be heard on October
7 and appointments made October 21.
It was also the consensus of the Council to use Ordinance 2022 NCS as a blueprint for the Mission
Statement.
The Interim Access Policy issue will be brought back to the Council on October 7.
~POI2'I'/VO'd'ER F12AUI) (verbatim)
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September 16, 1996
I Chief DeWitt - Madam Vice Mayor, Members of the Council. Before I start I feel I should give a
2 disclaimer here that I'm here tonight in my official position as yaur Police Chief. I am not now nor have I ~
3 ever been a member of the bar. And I just thought I should get that right out there. Seriously though, I
4 have discussed this issue with the City Attorney, the District Attorney and the State Election Fraud LJnit in ~
5 Sacramento. I feel it is a serious matter and it has potentially criminal violations in nature. After these
6 discussions with the people I mentioned, I'm still firmly convinced that the City Attorney's
7 recommendation to have this refened to the State Election Fraud Unit is the proper and correct way to
8 handle this. Now, one of the discussions I had was with the District Attorney Mr. Mike Mullins and I
9 asked him some questions that caused him to give me some background on this and he tells me that some
lo years back the State District Attorney's Association went to the State of California and complained about
11 the burdensorne and complex nature of election fraud violations and investigations. The State responded
12 to the State District Attorney by forming a fraud unit in Sacramento, and I believe they also have one in
l3 Southern California. Mr. Mullins also told me that he feels that there can be a conflict for local agencies ,
14 to investigate these matters within their own jurisdictions. Now having said to you at budget sessions and .
15 telling you what a great police department you have, and you do. I also need to put in at this particular '
16 point that I really don't have anybody on my staff currently who has ever been involved in this kind of an
17 investigation or has ever done anything of this particular nature. So we are lacking in our department ,
18 some expertise in investigating this type of crime. Mr. Mullins also further told me that he would decline
19 to investigate if the city were to ask him to do so, but he said if the state conducts an investigation and
20 carries on with it, if they ask for his assistance he would provide it. After talking with him I had some
21 discussions with a senior special investigator in the election fraud unit in Saeramento and this person was
22 evidently formerly a police officer and just so you know it didn't cut any ice because I was a police chief, '
23 and I had the impression he talked to a lot of police chiefs before and police chiefs weren't going ~o get
24 anymore information from him than anybody else. I'm being a little bit faeetious but that was pretty clear
25 to me. He also made it clear that he and they won't discuss the case with me or with anyone else. This is
26 an internal policy that they have had for some period of time and they won't violate it based on past
27 experiences with what can go wrong with these types of investi;ations. He also stated that he can't and ~
28 won't preclude us being the city from investigating the case, bu1: if we take up the investigation and start
29 the investigation they would drop their investigation and they would not share with us any information
30 that they may or may not have developed to this point. So I asked him the same question what would
31 happen if the District Attorney were to take over the investigation. He said if anybody other than us
32 conducts the investigation and we find out we will stop our investigation and we would not refer any of
33 the information that we may or may not have to them. He also told,
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35 Councilmember Maguire - pardon me. Madam Vice Mayor. Dennis did he give you any reason for that?
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3~ Chief DeWitt - I had the impression that they've had a lot of experience in this area and they've had a lot
3s of experience with what can happen if they disclosed information or if they don't handle it in the manner
39 that they do
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41 Councilmember Maguire - I understand that, but you know, you take lots of cases, Polly Klaas is the one
42 that comes first to mind, but in other cases, bank robberies, all kinds of cases, there's cooperation between
43 agencies. I~id he give you any specific explanation or criteria for taking this approach?
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45 Chief DeWitt - I think it's strictly an internal policy, and I think if anyone were to ask other agencies for ~.
46 help about something or ask a technical question I don't think anybody is going to deny you that
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 81
1 information. But to do a lot of work on it, no, not if we took it over. If we had a technical question and
2 we called them, I'm sure they would answer that.
4 Madam Vice Mayor if I may....
5 Maguire - Did you by any chance ask him how they feel about our resources being offered to facilitate
their investigation?
Chief DeWitt - I was pretty clear with him. I told him what the District Attorney had said, and maybe if I
can just finish this out as to what he said maybe that will become clear and then we can get to it or I'd be
10 happy to come back to it.
I1
12 Councilmember Maguire - okay thanks.
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14 Chief DeWitt - He also acknowledged to me that these types of investigations have very complex issues
t5 and are very time consuming. I also made the point that he said to just as the District Attorney did that
16 there can be conflicts in the investigations for local agencies if they choose to investigate em. So after we
17 went through all that I said can you tell me what's the bottom line here, where are we at, what are we
18 doing? And I'm quoting now cause I told him I wanted something that I could quote and he told me and
19 I'm quoting directly from what he told me. "They have the complaint and they understand it. It's
20 assigned to an investigator and it is an active case. If they find the allegations to be true and a crime can
21 be proven they will submit to the local district attorney and if for any reason the local district attorney
22 declines to prosecute it, it would be referred to the Attorney General for prosecution." So having said all
23 that my conclusion at this particular point is that the city attorney's actions are consistent with what all the
24 agencies told me were proper. It's consistent with what other cities ha~e done. It's clear to me that it may
25 or may not take some time, I never got a definitive answer to that, but Pm clear that it would be
26 thoroughly investigated and if it's indicated that it would be prosecuted. I'd be happy to try to answer
27 questions if I can, again I want to point out that I'm not a lawyer.
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29 Vice Mayor Stompe - I understand what your saying about the city not having that experience to do this
3o type of investigation, but I'm still a little unclear is if the council doesn't want to wait, it takes a
31 significant amount of time with the state, if the council voted to send it to the District Attorney for him to
32 review, he said he would decline it. Why will he decline this case?
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34 Chief DeWitt - He wasn't' specific with me about that, and I'd like to be clear because he said that, I
35 wouldn't want to say that that precludes the Council from doing whatever they want to do.
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37 Vice Mayor Stompe - But that's an option we have at this point?
Chief DeWitt - I think you have lots of options.
Thank you very much Vice Mayor.
42 Councilmember Read - Dennis in listening to this information and this scenario that you just played out.
43 IVlaybe we could go from the backwards and work forward. Could the City of Petaluma write a letter to
44 the State Election Fraud LTnit requesting that they contact the District Attorney? And that if it's needed
45 that the City of Petaluma would kick in too. But somehow, somehow using Mike Mullins position of not
46 getting involved in it and wouldn't get involved in it if the city had asked because we would jeopardize
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September 16, 1996
1 the State Election Fraud Unit from doing their work. Can't we cement it or can't we reinforce it that we
2 would like the District Attorney involved in it. . Can we do that?
4 Chief DeWitt - I think you have a perfect option to send letters ta anyone stating what you would prefer
5 and what your wishes are. I'm real clear about that.
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7 Councilmember Read - So that's an option? ~
8
9 Councilmember Maguire - Madam Vice Mayor
l0 ~
11 Chief DeWitt - I think it is yes. ~
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13 Councilmember ~Iaguire .
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15 Councilmember Maguire - Did you want to ~'inish that I~ennis? .,
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17 Chief DeWitt - No, that was it.
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19 Councilmember Maguire - You know, one of the things that I asked for in having this be agendized was I
2o wanted to know what crimes have actually been committed. Now I know our police department is
21 obligated to uphold the Penal Code, and I'm pretty sure that some crimes have been committed, but I
22 don't know what they are specifically so if you can't cite them off the top of your head which I wouldn't
23 really expect you to do I would like, you know I did ask staff for a report on that and I was expecting that
24 here tonight. I have to say you know that Mike Mullins maybe he's to busy working up his case for ~
25 alleged battery against me for my argument in the park over the Kepublicans, he's to busy to deal with
26 something like this, but I hope that's not the case.
27
28 Chief DeWitt - He and I did not have that discussion.
29 '
3o Councilmember Maguire - You didn't, okay. Ha Ha Ha. Good. Seriously though this is a, were on in a
31 very precarious position here you know, and it's not like , I don't: think anybody on this council is calling '
32 for the blood of any individual or group. I don't think that's what we want here. I think what we want is
33 full disclosure and I think Vice Mayor Stompe absolutely put it right. You know, It's going to, this could
34 drag on and we owe the community some answers, some explanation. So I certainly would be one to
35 recommend that we write a letter to the Election Fraud Unit, but [ also seriously want us to be able to say
36 that we offer our resources of the police department to assist because, now granted it's complex, but
37 there's some real simple stuff out there. Names on petitions, election law, it's like, you know, A+ B= C.
38 Its not that difficult to determine the basic primary stuff, and I know your totally capable, I know your
39 department is completely capable of doing that. I certainly think that after all the work that Pat Parks put
4o into the TLC investigation that we've got tremendous capability in the police department. I know it could
41 threaten to take time away from other issues too, but this is an important issue in this community and if
42 it's left to fester, it's gonna, you know very likely, you know, spread. I would really like to, you know, I
43 I'd have to tell you I'm a little perturbed, more than a little perturbed about the tone that the District
44 Attorney is taking and that there is reluctance here on our part to jump in on this. Now granted this is
45 going to have to be handled with real delicacy because there are people in our community. They are our
46 neighbors, our coworkers and in many cases our friends. Sometimes we have disagreements with people, '
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 83
1 but that should not be any reason whatsoever for us not to have our police department committed to
2 finding the truth here, because the fact is that is somebody steals, breaks into my car that might be a
3 neighbor kid and they might be, you know the the the child of a friend of mine too. If there's every bit
4 conflict in any crime that takes place in this local vicinity as there is in this situation, now this one stinks
' S to high heaven because it's politieal quote unquote, but then everything is really political in the ultimate
analysis as far as I can see. And I think there's a really tremendous need here to get to the bottom of this,
and if the rest of the council concurs, I would like us to see just how much we can do on the local level. I
don't want that to stop Mike Mullins from taking any necessary action. I think he's got a duty to uphold
the law too and all kidding aside that's fine if he wants to get his direction from the State Election Fraud
lo Unit, that's perfectly fine with me, but I think we need to at least have a meeting and discuss some form
11 of cooperative approach here. You know, it appears to me that there's been a far worse crime here
12 committed than in some other cases where that kind of cooperation has happened in the past.
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14 Chief DeWitt - Madam Vice Mayor, could I just respond to two things because I think there were a couple
15 of questions in there. The first one I'd like to be clear that the only thing the police department cannot
16 legally investigate are civil situations. I'm real clear and I tried to may the point in my initial presentation
17 that this is serious, it's criminal in nature and we always, and as it's said from the fraud unit investigator
18 we have an absolute right and can if we so choose to investigate it. I also believe that we've always
~ 19 cooperated with everyone and we would in this particular case if someone eomes in and asks us to do
20 something were going to respond to that. I also want to be careful that if I characterize that the District
21 Attorney was other than a gentlemen when he had a conversation with me I apologize for that because he
22 was not short, he was not terse with me, he was not angry he just told me here's where it came from,
23 here's the history, here's why it's like that and he says sometimes these things take time and he said they
24 would take any of us time to do so there is going to be some time factor. So if I characterized that he was
25 not angry, he was not being belligerent he was not anything, he was just matter of fact with me.
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27 Councilmember Maguire - That's fine. I didn't think he was angry. What I'm saying is that when the
28 gentlemen you spoke with at the fraud unit was saying that if the city pursues something they will drop it
29 and not share information, tome that's just outrageous. How can that guy get off saying that. I mean,
30 what a load of nonsense. I mean, you know, granted maybe the way to approach it is to say we offer you.
31 our assistance and you know, we will apply our resources accordingly, but to me its like, you know,
32 that's, this is a major issue of major importance to this community and for that person to make that
33 statement I would certainly like to know why he's saying that. You know, I'm presuming there's some
34 good reason for him to make that statement, because, you know, yes they have the resources, yes their
35 designed to do this sort of thing. I would think they would want some local cooperation and it sounds to
36 me like they are really trying to say no don't interfere, don't bother, you know, stay out of our way, and I
37 just don't know if that's the best approach.
Chief DeWitt: I think their policy, to answer your question is basically the same as the FBI, and if you
follow th~ current investigation that the FBI's conducting in Sonoma County they will not discuss an
ongoing ~nvestigation period. And they found over a course of time because it gives up information that
42 might be helpful to solving the case. It gives false leads, it gives false impressions sometimes to the
43 public as to what your working on and what your doing. So I was pretty clear that it was a similar policy
44 to what the FBI has so that when it comes out it all comes out at one point it doesn't come out in bits and
45 pieces. It doesn't mess up their investigation in the process and it doesn't get people anxious about the
46 investigation who don't need to be anxious. So I think that's what it was and again he was nothing but a
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gentlemen in the conversation he was not flip with me in any way shape or form and I'm real clear that if
we ask them for any kind of help, advice or whatever that we would get it. All of those people that I
talked to.
Councilmember Shea - Chief DeWitt, so in order to expedite this, because I think we need to get to the
bottom of it, I really feel strongly thaf it was an embarrassment to the city and to the people that did sign
those petitions in good faith. So, what could we do to expedife that and to let the State know, I mean, how
much cooperation could our local police department give to the 5tate?
Chief DeWitt - I think Warren wants to respond to that, but again let me just say one quick thing. We
stand ready and available to cooperate with anybody that legally we can and should.
Assistant City Manager Warren Salmons - Its really a resource allocation issue and the council has really ,_
full latitude. If the city council says that this is a priority, and we insist that it move forward immediately
then someone in Dennis' department would learn how to do this investigation and we would apply
whatever resaurces to this investigation. Apparently we would foreclose the DA and "the State working on ;
the case except for perhaps some technical information that's sort of cooperative stuff that does happen
but not co-investigation. On the other hand, and I believe Denniy made this clear to both the DA and the
State investigator and that is that we were ready to offer any assistance we could. The DA really wasn't
interested because they don't want to handle it they want the state to handle it. The state person and just
to refresh my rriemory here I don't think he was interesYed in any assistance.
Chief i~eWit~ - No he wasn't, and didn't think they needed any.
Assistant City Manager Salmons - So we have that situation where the offer's been made, tell us what we ~
might do, neither is interested, but for different reasons. We can make that offer in writing, I think we -
should just for the record. We can always follow up on why the policy is the way it is. It doesn't address ~
the real primary issue is lets get on with this, but it does kind of press the matter of why are things the way
they are in terms of internal investigative policy. Or if the city council just absolutely says this is it, we --
want this done right now then the assignment goes. "
1Vladam Vice Mayor
Councilmember Read
Thank you, Chief DeWitt when you were speaking to the person from the state elections and fraud unit -
did you ask the question of when do you believe you will have an` answer. Did you ask that next
question? _
Chief DeWitt - Yes.
Councilmember Read - And what response did you get?
Chief DeWitt - the response was that they didn't want to respond to that. They don't give out windows
of when things are going to happen or not happen. Now I could point out to help maybe with that
questions. Warren has said you can send letters to anyone you want. Everyone myself included has a
boss and I know that I was talking to a supervisor, but I know also that I was not talking to the highest ;
84 ~
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 85
person in that organization. And maybe in the way of suggestion a letter from the council to that person
might get you some answers that I was not able to get.
4 Councilmember Read - Can I follow up with a possible start of a course of action? Just a start, Is that a
5 letter be sent to the State Elections Fraud Unit, and copied to our members in the Assembly and Senate
and state a whole bunch of stuff that were offering our police, that we would like you to use the DA, vve
would request that you give us a date certain of when you believe you will have some answer, ask them
what else we can do while this investigation is going on, state the concerns that we don't want this to get
cold, state the concerns that this council is ready to (I I I don't want to threat) to pull it. There's got to be
10 other ways to get this going and maybe one meaty letter might start it if it's given to the right people. It's
1 I It's just an idea before we say were not gettin anywhere and we do it ourselves. I find this very similar to
12 building a bridge with the Army Corps of Engineers, you either do it their way or you don't get the money
13 to build the bridge and it's almost that it's being held over our head. And so if it is going to be held over
14 our head then we better document our case in a letter in writing cc'd to the right people to get it started.
15 And that's just a thought. It's not gospel.
16
17 Councilmember Hamilton
18
19 Councilmember Hamilton - I think we should write a letter. I think one will not be enough and that we
20 should probably send a letter every month asking just in asking status, re making re offering our resources
21 and restating that our community is very concerned and interested in waiting for answers. I'd also like to
22 know how many cases their handling. Do you know? and How much staff they have. We could probably
23 figure it out ourselves about how long it will take if we had that information.
24
25 Chief DeWitt - I didn't ask that question and I'm not sure how to get it but I'd be happy to try to get it.
26
27 Councilmember Hamilton - I would like to know how many cases their handling right now and how many
2s staff inembers they have to work on those cases so we could better evaluate if it will happen this year or
29 next year or if this is just gone - if it is just like the Army Corps of Engineers what we did with the Army
3o Corps of Engineers was eventually went and visited them, when you and the Mayor went to visit them
31 Councilmember Read and maybe that's what we need is a few Councilmembers to go and just pay a visit
32 and say we know you don't want to tell us anything, but there's nothing like a personal visit to say were
33 concerned, were here representing our community and I'd be happy to be one of those people if the
34 council wants to do that. I think that there's nothing like that personal touch. They may not even give out
35 their address, but I'm sure we could find them.
36
37 Chief DeWitt - I have an address.
Madam Vice Mayor
~ Councilmember Maguire Thank you. Dennis thank you, I'm upset, I hope I'm not throwing to much of
42 this stuff at you because I think you do a great job and I think a lot of the department, but I'm a little
43 perturbed at the just the fact that as Councilwoman Read said it seems like their holding it over our heads
44 arid I think Councilwoman Read put it very succinctly we do need to write a letter, we do need to copy
45 Kerri Nlazzoni and Milton Marks and the appropriate people and if necessary even ask for their assistance
46 to motivate the Election Fraud Unit if so necessary, but really I would like this letter to include we want to
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September 16, 1996
1 offer our assistance and we would appreciate the opportunity to ~ive that assistance and have a little inter
2 agency cooperation because I really think, the FBI does do that in certain cases. Usually its the ones that
3 bodies like ours push it a little bit I think, but it um I think it's the appropriate thing to do here and if the
4 rest of the council concurs should we just direct staff to do that accordingly?
5
6 Vice Mayor Stompe - I like the idea of a personal visit.
7
8 Councilmember Maguire - Yeah.
9
lo (?) We'll notice the meeting and have all of us attend.
11
12 Vice Mayor Stompe - Thank you. We have several members of the public that would like to addxess this
13 so we can have some council discussion after members of the public speak.
14
15 Hank Zucker - Thank you Madam Vice Mayor, Councilmembers, Chief DeWitt. I would like to state on
16 behalf of the Citizens for Lafferty why we feel a local investigation is warranted and indeed we feel
17 necessary. First of all the um, first is that Petaluma, the Citizens of Petaluma and the Government of
18 Petaluma are aggrieved party not the state. The fraud was perpetuated against us not against the state as a
19 general therefore it is our primary responsibility. As far as law enforcement goes I believe that not a great
2o deal of special expertise is needed, certainly some could be called in but the basic issues are. For example
21 for the forgeries` the basic issues are who signed, and who's names. Perhaps a handwriting expert would
22 be needed at some point. In general the basic issues of who did what when would not seem to be
23 something that purely the state could deal with. It seems like standard police procedure; standard District
24 Attorney procedure. Also I would like to mention as Doug Dailey pointed out a couple months ago the
25 figure we keep seeing in the press over and over again is 980 forgeries. Well in fact there were
26 undoubtedly more than 980 forgeries. We don't how many because the research has not been done, the
2~ investigations have not been done or at least publicly. We know that 62% of one initiative, 62% of the
28 signatures checked far one initiative of which are between 3100 & 3200 signatures were submitted, 62%
29 were forgeries another initiative again 3100 to 3200 submitted 25% were forgeries. If the petitions that
3o were examined were representative then that means in total something like 2,600 forgeries if you had
31 looked at all the initiative all the signatures on all the petitions. And it's possible that by chance the
32 petitions checked were the ones that had most of the forgeries. Its also possible by chance that the ones
33 checked were actually better than average; maybe there are more than 2600. The point is we don't know
34 and we need to know. Certainly the numbers 980 almost sound like it's possible for one person to have
35 done it when we know that there's, when you think there's probably more likely 2600 forgeries then at
36 that level it could not possibly have been the work of one person. It's a conspiracy, we know that the
37 committee by their financial statement has no one individual collector responsible for that many
38 signatures. There had to be more than one person involved, we need to know who they are, I don't see
39 why the state is the onYy one who could figure out who they ~re. It seems that local county and city
40 agencies should be able to determine that kind of, to answer that: kind of question. Another problem with
41 the state investigation is we don't know what the state is investigating. Are they investigating just the
42 forgeries? The forgeries are certainly the most important issue here but not the only issue, not the only
43 problem with the Committee for Choice actions and not the only ones worthy of investigation, certainly
44 in light of the forgeries. One thing the collectors were required to be Petaluma citizens: Our petitions, the
45 Citizens for Y,afferty and park petitions said at the bottom that under penalty of perjury I swear,
46 I know, I signed several of them. Under penalty of perjury I Hank Zucker etc. are a resident of Petaluma
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1 living in such and such address and that this was a basic requirement I assumed the Committee for Choice
2 initiatives have not had the chance to actually see their forms, but I assumed that they had a similar
3 statement they certainly had a similar legal requirement. If so then each of those signatures by the three
4 paid collectors at least the three paid collectors that were mentioned in the Committee for Choice financial
5 statement were perjury, they were committing perjury if they in fact said they were the residents and they
weren't. Should not the Committee for Choice organizers who wrote checks to these people have known
that they were writing checks to people who were not residents of Petaluma. Certainly they put on their
own financial statement addresses that were not inside the city limits of Petaluma. Why did they do that?
I think that is also worthy of an investigation. We don't know if the state agrees. Again further the, there
l0 were supervisors aides involved, we don't know to what extent, we know that both Supervisor Kelly's
11 aide Martin McClure and Supervisor Harberson's aide Marion Hodge were key members of the
12 committee. Martin McClure was paid $1200 by the committee for what? What part did he have, why did
13 he not insure at the very least certainly maybe they can claim they don9t know about the forgeries but
14 certainly they would know about the checks going out to paid collectors who were not city residents,
15 Marion Hodge and her husband were major donors as well as major instigators of the committee, Again
16 these are local issues that the citizens of Petaluma and County of Sonoma should have answers to. The
17 states idea that we'll investigate it when we feel like it and we'll investigate what we feel like and we'll
18 tell you when we feel like it doesn't seem helpful. I don't believe that the City of Petaluma can rely on
19 the state that won't, a state investigation when the state won't say what and when and if they will
2o investigate. Chief DeWitt you said that the state earlier implied to you that they were aware of the
21 complaint. Do you know the full text of the complaint? Did the complaint refer only to the forgeries or
22 did it touch on other matters as well? I think that is one the council needs to know, and the one that
23 should be addressed. Again we don't know the scope of the state investigation, they won't tell us. We
24 don't know, we certainly don't know that it will be timely. A timely investigation is important for several
25 reasons. One is that the longer between the commission of a crime and the investigation of the crime the
26 harder it is to determine exactly what happened. People's memories fade, people leave town, at least one
27 of the major paid signature gatherer's one I believe who was if I remember correctly one who was not,
28 one of the ones who was not a Petaluma resident has already left the county and is now in San Diego. The
29 state certainly could be helpful in terms of reaching such a person but we don't want more people to fade
30 away, more memories to dim, more plausible denial. The Citizens for Lafferty and Regional Park are not
31 the only ones who are asking for a quick and timely investigation. The Argus Courier has a regular
32 feature that I'm sure your all familiar with called the Pulse Of Petaluma where they ask about, they ask an
33 issue and ask the public opinion and say call in and express your opinion. The number of people
34 expressing opinion on that particular question their asking whether there should be an investigation, was
35 apparently at least from the appearance in the paper unprecedented. I've never seen before the paper
36 devoted virtually a whole page to the to opinions. They mentioned that the tape that records the opinions
37 ran out of room after an hour and that only one of the opinions said let it slide. I'd also like to point out
that the, speak on behalf of the Citizens for Lafferty that we did not orchestrate any response to that
particular Pulse of Petaluma question. That was not a committee response that was a community
response. I personally did not actually know about that question until after the time for responding to it
was over. I would also mention that there have been allegations we've read in the newspapers about
42 Airport Commission involved and others at least one Airport Commissioner Felix Weylie has publicly
43 asked for a speedy investigation. Don Smith the treasurer of the Committee for Choice at least as far as
44 the forgeries has also been quoted in the newspaper asking for an investigation, saying we want the people
45 responsible to be identified quickly. I believe that a number of people in the comrnunity and certainly on
46 the committee itself have been tainted by this whole affair. I don't believe in guilty by association I
87
VoL 30 Page 88
September 16, 1996
1 believe we need to see who in fact is guilty and who in fact is innocent and let the guilty be punished and
2 the uuiocent cleared. Some people who are in the council race have been involved or have been seen to be
3 involved in varying degrees with the committee. No one though am I aware of was a direct cornr~ittee
4 member, bu~ certainly some supported their position and at least one signed their petition although had
5 nothing to with she claims with organizing. So again we need to clear the air, punish the guilty exonerate
6 the innocent and I don't like that state blackmail that I heard fram Chief DeWitt. ~ Again I'm not blaming
7 you of course as a messenger. I was glad at the thrust of many of the council reactions to that. That
8 strikes me as thoroughly outrageous. I don't see how they could possibly accept the state point of view
9• that well were going to do what we want, what we want and were not going to tell you what we want,
1o were not going to tell you until its all over. That's just, how could that possible be acceptable. I don't
11 understand. How could they get away with that, I mean I don't see how the state policy could be ......I
~2 understand how details of an active investigation do need to be ]cept confidential, but the fact that there is
13 one, that's just crazy. I would certainly like to see this...to f'ollow the thrust of some of the council
14 comments that were made after the chief's remarks that, I would like to see the council (sneeze)
15 unanimously officially protest to the state this policy and demand to be told what's going on and take
16 whatev, and to start our own investigation. Hopefully with state cooperation, but if their not going to do it
17 in a timely manner, if their not going to tell us their going to do it I think we need to do it ourselves.
18 Thank you.
19
20 David Keller - Thank you for time to comment on this. The fraud in an election of course is a slap in the
21 face of the democratic process and a slap in the face of this community and should be condemned raptly
22 by all of us. We have a very difficult problem in front of us which is a state agency thaf specializes in
23 election fraud and I think as Hank as pointed out perhaps it might be useful if we can't get the answer
24 from the Secretary of State's Office perhaps the State Attorney General can find out for us what state
25 statutes the Election Fraud Unit will investigate violations of and let us know if there are areas of state,
26 county or municipal codes that they will not touch in this investigation. If they are off limits by the nature
27 of their charge as a department then we know there are other areas that we can look into locally without
28 jeopardizing their expertise and their process. Certainly there are potentially local violations in for
29 instance who can be a signature gatherer whether they are requir~d to be a resident of the City of Petaluma
30 or not. There are questions about whether students at Casa Grande High School were solicited for
31 signature gathering and or paid, its a violation of a number of sch.ool statutes perhaps federal as well, does
32 that come under their pervue? Are xeports on finances that woulct normally go to the FPPC which is a
33 different office from the Secretary of State Voter Fraud Unit. Are financial statements investigated by the
34 Voter Fraud Unit if not is the FPPC proceeding on an investigation. Where is the coordination among
35 these various issues and I would suspect that we might get an answer out of the State AG's office on how
36 this is worked. Again I think, it is, while it is extremely important to develop answers quickly, clearly to
37 exonerate the innocent to prosecute the people who are charged with these crimes I think it is also very
38 important not to jeopardize a very skilled investigation assuming they are doing what we expect them to
39 be doing. We don't have any way of finding out at this point from their office, I think it would be very
4o useful if we can find out perhaps from the AG or the Secretary of State himself just what domain this
41 office investigates. I'm curious, Chief DeWitt, on the mention of the reticence from Mike Mullins, he
42 indicated and you mentioned this twice there were potential conflicts at the local level. Did he say what
43 he meant by that?
44
45 Chief DeWitt, (no anircophone)
46
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 89
1 David Keller, So we don't know what these potential conflicts are at the local level. It would be nice to
2 find out what he meant by that. I think its very important to proceed with this as quickly as possible and
3 to get a clear answer so that those people who in good faith participated in that signature drive can have
4 their names cleared, those people who contributed in good faith can have their names cleared and that
5 those people who entered into a devious process can be prosecuted quickly, clearly and excised from the
public good of this community as quickly as possible. And perhaps an appeal to their better nature as
community members on the off chance one of them might be watching or any of them might be watching
or hear of any of this perhaps they ought to call the Secretary of States office Division of Voter Fraud, talk
to the investigator, fess up to what they've done and lets get on with this. And I think there's somebody
l0 here, Bruce I believe has the phone number that they can call. Thank you.
11
12 Peter DeKramer - Yes I am still Peter DeKramer. I have a file, a copy of which has gone to the Secretary
13 of State. David's said an awful lot of what I wanted to... points I wanted to make, but I want to make
14 something clear. Were dealing with two situations here. Were dealing with one situation which is voter
15 fraud in terms of the petition gathering. There are a lot of different things that can be dealt with under that
16 including the forgery of signatures under the portion where the citizens are to sign that they are in favor of
17 putting on the ballot, there's the affidavit, so forth. The affidavit by the way is State Election Code which
18 the city has said they would follow, and that affidavit which is in the code says that there has to be at the
19 bottom saying that you are a resident and I believe a voter of the city in which the election is going to be
2o taking place. So to sign that is also is not just voter fraud, but gets into other areas as well. The second
21 area though that I want to make clear is that there is also the side in terms of planning the financial
22 information. Much of which comes from the FPPC the Fair Political Practices Committee and that st~rts
23 as you all know because you've been there with a filing of a form saying that your putting a committee
24 together. When I was trying to do research into the Committee for Choice or the Committee to limit
25 choice, um, I was not able to get my hands on a 410 Form. It says in the election code that copy is
26 supposed to be filed with the city clerk within 10 days of either spending or receiving $1000. It wasn't
27 until the 19th of August, and I even contacted the Secretary of States office and they were going to fax me
28 one in early August, it wasn't until the 19th that I actually got a copy of that so the copy was actually filed
29 with the Secretary of State in early July and its... there's a box on there that says are you yet, basically,
30 have you yet qualified as a committee which means have you yet received or spent $1000 and the box was
31 checked which indicates that at the time that it was filed they said that they had not received or spent
32 $1000, however that was after the date their subsequent 419 filing indicated that somebody up on the hill
33 had given them $4,000 so you've got some conflicts going here. I have started to gather information that I
34 have sent two paclcages up to the Secretary of State, anybody that wants to get ahold of ine in the city that
35 has further information or wants to know the address on how to get ahold of the Secretary of State I would
36 love it. I have some pretty strong information about a number of things including payments that were
37 made by people who were not listed on these filings. I have information about moneys that were given to
a committee which were not funneled directly through the committee, but were funneled outside and
around it. There's a lot of things that are taking place that are very questionable in terms of the way this
was put together, And so it's important as David said that what we do is that we contact the Secretary of
State and ask not just for a voter petition investigation, but that we also ask for a financial filings
42 investigation. Now I know that Matt had asked for that a couple of weeks ago and when I discussed it
43 with 1'aulette about a week and a half ago it was, correct me if I'm wrong, but that the request to the
44 Secretary of State was merely to do with the petition signatures and there was no request for delving into
45 the filing of the financial information. Part of that request has to also ask them, because their very slow in
46 getting back, ask them what they will cover in terms of their investigation and what the FPPC themselves
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September 16, 1996
~ will investigate because FPPC does lay a lot of this stuff off to the Secretary of State, but evidently they
2 also handle some of those things themselves. I think that's it, certainly let them know we'll offer
3 assistance. I do think it would be impossible for Rich Rudnansky to coordinate a fair arid impartial
4 investigation, the conflict of interest starts with the fact that individuals who have been involved with the
5 pushing this swap down our throats include two former City Colrncil Members, a former City Mayor and
6 a former City Attorney obviously that would be a conflict of interest. Thank you.
7
8 Janice Cader Thompson - Good evening. Basically everything has been said, but I think there's a lot of
9 information and that information, I feel like the police departmerit needs or we need to go to the police
1o department and give that information. It's the filing forms, I mean it's just from the very beginning this
11 process has been flawed and it's important that that information that the citizens have gets to the Secretary
12 of State, but it's also important that the city and maybe the county have a separate investigation for items
13 that the state is not going to investigate. And I'm really concerned about the student you know the
14 hearsay the students at Casa Grande. I feel as though its the Committee for Choice. It's their
15 responsibility and the two signers of that initiative those initiatives who are responsible. I would really
16 hate to see that students were that they were blamed for this. I don't care if their 18 or 19 if they were still
17 students. Um, I don't feel as though they should be put up for a felony or you know even, I just don't, I
18 believe the students may have been duped into doing something that they didn't know they were doing.
19 And I agree with Hank I mean there are a lot more of those signatures out there. It just wasn't 980 and I
2o have tried to contact tlie Casa Grande High School, I have finally got a response. I contacted fhem about
21 the students possible involvement and this was back in May and I just got a response and today just spoke
22 with Mr. Cadman at the High School and I still don't have a real clear view of if students were involved
23 and I just think, this is just a tremendous crime on this community and there has been so much
24 mudslinging that I think that it would be nice if we could maybe have an 800 number just like up in
25 Rohnert Park with the fraud that's going on there. I mean people got on that immediately, they get an 800
26 number and people can call and give their information what they know, maybe we can do something like
27 that. They don't want to be known, but people in this community know what happened and a lot of
28 people were approached to give money to this committee. People have information and they have to have
29 an avenue and feel comfortable to give that information. And there has to be a way that this council and
3o Chief DeWitt and even the county works together because this should be resolved, and I think it should
31 part af it should stay with the state but there is so much that the state is not going to investigate. I do have
32 the address and phone numbers that I'll give out if anybody wants `em. I think it's really important that
33 people in this community write letters to the Election Fraud Inv~stigation Unit in Sacramento and people
34 should be writing letters and asking for them to expedite this, but they should also be writing letters to this
35 council and asking that the city and the county investigate what the state is not going to investigate. So I
36 would appreciate 'it if something gets done quickly on this, thanks.
37
38 Robert Ramirez - More of a question for Dennis. As Janice was saying we've all been watching ya know
39 Michael Rosen what happened there in Rohnert Park and me being a real estate broker we've been
4o watching very closely and knowing Michael and knowing the family and Chuck his broker brother who I
41 grew up with. Best I figured Michael's violated the California Civil Code, Business and Professions
42 Code, Code of Ethics for National and California Associates of Realtors. He's violated federal law for
43 fair lending, RESPf1, Housing Urban Development and mail fraud, Broker Loan Law those are all FBI,
44 ~ County, State and who acted first was the City of Rohnert Park. They immediately launched their own
45 ~nvestigation and I was just blown away when I saw that cause I didn't even know you know city police
46 did that lcind of thing and I mean the 800 number already, they have this meeting at the Red Lion Inn so
90
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 9l
1 everybody can get together and figure out how much you got taken for, ya know gee I didn't know I had a
2 loan on your house so your the guy I loaned money to and this kind of stuff so their reacting before the
3 trail of blood in a sense has disappeared and, so I was curious Dennis if, how that is, I realize he's done a
4 lot more serious things in a sense, but still the community reacted immediately, the Police Department and
5 I believe one of the ex-police chiefs was part of that I think I read in the paper. I don't know if that made
~ a difference or not hoping nobody in this room did a loan. So I don't know, that's a question I guess, but
it is a reaction that I saw a community immediately lunged out there and took it upon themselves.
~ Chief DeWitt - I purposely tried in my presentation and I would still like to try to not mention names I
l0 referred to a lot of different things because I'm not really sure that anything I might say if it would be
11 appropriate or not appropriate, but the answer to the 800 number, we found very quickly that when in our
12 past unfortunate case that we involved ourselves with the FBI they have a great deal of resources and they
13 can afford to and they found that there are ways to do those kinds of things and it's very helpful I think,
14 that's how that came about. I'm not real clear, I'm pretty clear that it had absolutely nothing to do with
15 anybody from the I'olice Department being involved in this as to why it got investigated by them. I'm
16 also, it was my understanding that the meeting at the Red Lion Inn was called by a private person who
17 was one of the victims. It was not done by the Police Department or the FBI. That's probably something
18 they would never do. So there's always lots of possibilities and it depends on the circumstances, and I
19 don't really and truly know enough and I know this may surprise all of you but I continually, when I go to
20 the Safeway or Lucky Store, got to fit them both in here so I don't get in trouble, but when I go there
21 people tend to think I'm the Police Chief I know about everything that's going on and I would like to
22 perpetuate that rumor but it's absolutely not true. So I don't know everything that's going on in the inside
23 of that case and if we all did there might be some answers and I'm not trying to cop out on Robert's
24 question. I just think we don't know enough, I don't personally to be able to answer that. And then I'm
25 trying to remember was there a third part of the question or was that it? I don't think the FBI anymore
26 ever comes in and takes over cases. I think in police circles 20 years ago they had that reputation, and
27 quite honestly, and I said it to the council before, we were reluctant when we got into a partnership with
2s them which was the best thing that we ever did. I think that image, and they have a new director and this
29 is the 90's that they will get involved in anything like that and help local jurisdictions and I hope I made
30 that point to all these other people that indicated that they wouldn't do this or wouldn't do that, none of
31 them every indicated that they wouldn't be cooperative, they would not do the right thing and I'm sure
32 that all of them when I talked with them thought they were doing the right thing. They tried to give it to
33 me as it really was, straight up so that I could pass that information on, but there was never any hostility
34 and belligerence or anybody anything like that with anybody I talked too.
35
36 Madam Vice Mayor
37
Councilmember Shea - Can I ask you a question Chief DeWitt? Who, was the complaint, how was the
complaint filed, was it filed to the Police Department? Is that how?
Chief I~eWitt - Which complaint now?
42
43 Councilmember Shea - The complaint for the voter fraud? Is that filed to the Police Department as a
44 complaint?
45
46 Chief DeWitt - I think it was filed through the City Clerk's office.
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September 16, 1996
1
2 Councilmember Shea - to the Police Department or to the state?
3 _.
4 Chief DeWitt - it was sent through the City Clerk's office to the City Attorney and the suggestion was
5 that's where it properly goes and that's where they sent it. I hav~ no information, but I did take copious ,
6 notes tonight so I am aware who knows a lot.
7
8 Ha Ha Ha Ha.
9
1o Chief DeWitt - So if we end up in that position I have a lot of good ideas.
11
12 Thank you Chief DeWitt.
13
14 Jerry Price - Thank you. An awful lot has been said so I'll try to keep this short and maybe just try to be ~
15 use a little bit for emphasis here. First of all I think Councilman Read your suggestion I really value that
16 we could utilize our leverage. We have leverage and we should use it and so that some of the things I'm
17 going to mention I hope we will include in such a letter. Chief DeWitt I appreciate the protocol we have ~
18 been given and I'd like see us try to follow that protocol if possible because it sounds like it's you know .
19 that's the ways it's being done. At the same time I think that we really need to be on them and I thinlc we
2o need to stress a couple of things. One of the things I think we could stress vvith all of these people is this, ~•
21 That there are truly prominent citizens in this community and public officials ~vho have been associated
22 with this case. Whether you like it or not anybody whose name appeared as a volunteer or even a signator
23 whatever to the give us the moon campaign or the Committee for Choice has been associated with this
24 fraud and I think that needs to be cleared up and those innocent ~eople really do need to be exonerated •
25 and the guilty people have to be prosecuted. For sure this element of how many actual signatures were ~
26 fraudulent I think should be followed all the way through. I sat in this very room behind the man who
27 cavalierly came to this podium and said in record time we've collected over 6,000 signatures and we've
28 checked them all against the rosters. Well perhaps that's true, maybe they did check them all against the
29 roster on the way they put them down, but I was rather amazed that he could be so cavalier making that ~
3o statement at that time. So I really think that we should pursue the total list of all of those petitions and
31 find just how many were fraudulent. In Sacramento this petition gatherer Lisa Marie Smith was actually
32 arrested and one of the charges the Penal Code charges was perjury and that's plain and simple. When we
33 filled out those petitions and when we watched there's ten names there that you watched the signatures
34 being put down and you witness, I have been a witness to these signatures and you sign your name at the
35 bottom, and if you have not watched those signatures your perjured. So I think it's very important that's a
36 criminal act. Captain Pat Parks, one of our best investigative officers on our police force was quoted ,
37 recently in the Press Democrat, stating that in the Polly Klaas case we did learn some things that
38 immediate action and cooperation and publicity of these things, the more you get out the quicker; the
39 better. And this is contrary to most investigative procedures that: have gong in the past where police
4o procedures are rather secretive and so forth. So finally I would just say that any case the blood hounds are
41 usually brought out particularly for a significant important case like this and the~ longer we wait the further
42 away the scent becomes and therefore it's washed away. ~'inally I'd like to have us follow absolutely
43 every penny of this Committee for Choice, where that money came from and what was involved there. I
44 think this is very serious. Thank you and I'm very happy to see this entire council seems to be adamant :
45 about pursuing this case so thanks very much. ~
46
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 93
1 Vice Mayor Stompe - I think I saw Bruce Hagan leaving and he was our last speaker. Any council
2 discussion.
4 Madari~ Vice 1Vlayor
5
Councilmember Shea - NYy question was if the council could file a complaint with the state regarding th~
fraud? I don't know if that would be a question for the City Attorney. I'd be interested in an answer to
that. In the meantime I like what Councilmember Hamilton said about paying a visit there, that I think
that we have to clearly define what the issues are you know what needs to be investigated and I don't
1 o know what the complaint actually says. I haven't seen a letter of the complaint so I don't know if that
11 could be made available to us so that we know exactly what their investigating. But I think there's other
12 issues that were brought up tonight that need to be investigated. And I'd like to expedite the process and I
13 don't know if that's going to work, but I think we need to take that position ya know before it does get old
14 and before it does get cold. I mean I think that we should pursue it.
15
16 Madam Vice Mayor
17
I8 Councilmember Hamilton - Its seems to me like we still need the City Attorney to come and talk to us
19 and give us his best legal advice. And I want this on the next agenda and I want him to tell us how he
2o came to make the decision to send it to the state without asking the council which direction we wanted to
21 go with it. I'm kinda disgusted that it went that way and that there was no policy decision made by the
22 council or no option to make a policy decision. I think we many of us assumed that this was going to be a
23 local investigation and were upset about what happened, just like a lot of people in the community. And it
24 just got shuffled off without enough communication coming back once he made that kind of decision ~
25 think he owed us an explanation and some real information so that we could provide that to our
26 constituents and so that we could put it out in the newspapers so that people know that we are responding
27 and we care. Instead I think were left with giving this impression that we don't really take it seriously,
28 that people can do this kind of stuff in Petaluma and it's okay and it isn't. I don't think anybody on this
29 council feels that way and the more I've sat here a listened tonight I'm just getting more and more upset
3o and disgusted about it. I want the City Attorney to respond to us and to give us he's the person who has
31 the information, has the ability to get the information, he should line it all up for us, all the things that ....
32 all the violations that have occurred, he should be able to tell us what they were. Where we file the
33 complaints, he needs to tell us where to do that and how. And what we would include in our letters and
34 on the list of elected officials that we can contact to register our complaints and to say we have filed these
35 complaints to these agencies, we want you to help us stay on top of it and to pressure them to respond to
36 our community. We are concerned, I think we need to do, just jump in with both feet.
37
Councilmember Read - Thank you Madam Vice Mayor, I would like to request that the minutes from this
agenda item be verbatim minutes and so that we can enter them into the record. And I know that that's, I
can understand the difficulty and I'm not expecting them next week, but I feel very strongly that these
need to be in the minutes and it's not your interpretation or mine, that they be verbatim. Thank you for
42 that request.
43
44 Viee 1Vlayor Stompe -`1Varren can we schedule Rich to speak at our October 7 meeting.
45
46 Madam Vice 1Vlayor
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Vol. 30 Page 94
September 16, 1996
1 Councilmembers Maguire/Hamilton - What about September 30?
2
3 Vice Mayor Stompe - Well were not going to get minutes by September 30 of this meeting are we?
4
5 Councilmember Hamilton - But we'll have a tape. He can watcri the tape.
6
7 Assistant City Manager Salmons - I think that the City Attorney will be at the September 30 meeting
8 because of other items and so it would be possible for him to discuss this. I want to make sure before this
9 item has ended that I have a good understanding so that I can su~~plement whatever..........
l0
11 Madam Vice Mayor
12 Councilmember Maguire - I would like to respond to that, Warren, thank.you, what I would like to see
13 from staff along with what Jane has suggested a report from Ricli Rudnansky, I want to know as I've said
t4 before specifically what crimes have been committed. I want to know as Councilwoman Shea has asked,
15 what exactly does the formal complaint say. I want to know what other options we have vis a vis what
16 Peter DeKramer was saying can we send a letter to the FPPC the Fair Political Practices Commission and
17 is there an investigation, would that be an appropriate place to have an investigation? Those are the things
18 I would like to see from staff. I'd also like us to write that letter or letters as Councilwoman Read
19 succinctly pointed out and definitely we need to send it to the "boss", maybe I think that's probably Bill
20 Jones the Secretary of State would be the appropriate person. I would like to know as Councilwoman
21 Shea asked; I think it was, what the case load at the state level is and what sort of resources are being put
22 to that. I would like to know if we can ya know whether or not we get an answer I would certainly like to
23 ask what specifically is being investigated because I agree that we want to know not only the number of
24 all the forged signatures, cause every name down there that's forged a person who's name was used like
25 that is owed an apology, but I'd also like to know the, what other issues vis-a-vis the statement of
26 disclosure, what, what, I think that needs to be looked at and seen ,see if there were crimes committed
27 there and trace that to the ground. Those are, that's the direction I'd like to give staff and then I was
28 handed the phone number for the Secretary of State's office and the seniar.special investigator, I don't
29 know if this is the gentlemen that, Chief DeWitt was speaking ta, but Ric Ciaramella is at the following
3o phone number at that's 916 657-2136, I believe that is the Secretary of States office so if people have
31 information they want to pass on then they can call that number.
32
33 Thank you.
34
35 Assistant City Manager Salmons - I'd like to add that that's where we've been sending any information
36 that we receive relative to concerns about the issues so that they have the benefit of Mr. Zucker's letters
37 for instance.
38
39 Vice Nlayor
40 Councilwoman Hamilton - Before a letter is sent anywhere I'd like to see it to make sure, I'd like to have
41 the opportunity to offer to make sure that it asks all the questions and I would like us to see it and provide
42 comment on it so that it's.
43
44 Vice Mayor Stompe - So if we hold off until after the September 30 meeting when we have all the
45 information.
46
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September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 95
1 Councilmember Read, that would be fine Madam Vice Mayor. I think they should do a parallel, they
2 should start to put the meat of that letter together.
3
4 Madam Vice Mayor
5 Councilmember Shea - I'd still like the answer from the City Attorney if the City Council can file a
complaint on behalf of the citizens of Petaluma since were all in agreement that er that we feel strongly
about this.
Assistant City Manager Salmons - I'll add that to the list and by the way the Police Chief suggested that
l0 the phone number was given was incorrect. The number is 916 657-2166.
11
12 Thank you.
13
14 Janice Cader Thompson - I was just curious. Warren, you9ve already sent stuff up to the state? Did you
I5 just say that?
16
17 Assistant City Manager Salmons - The material, Madam Vice Mayor, that was questionable, we've said
18 this already, that on the advice of the attorney the clerk sent that to the Elections Fraud Unit that we all
19 know.
20
21 Councilmember Hamilton - sent
22
23 Assistant City Nlanager Salmons - Madam Vice Mayor, we have sent the material that we received
24 initially and then I know there was a follow up letter from Mr. Zucker which we also forwarded to the
25 same place. That's what I can tell you, that's what I know.
26
27 Vice Mayor Stompe - Okay, Thank you.
28
29 Janice Cader Thompson - can we maybe get the phone number and address in the Press Democrat and
30 Argus so people would know.
31
32 ~lice Mayor Stompe - Sure.
33
34 Well Maybe if the Council could ask it would, ha ha ha ha, I seem to have a problem getting things to the
35 newspaper.
36
37 Vice Mayor Stompe - Will the Argus and Press Democrat please print that in their article. Thank you
~ very much.
***** End Verbatim*****
42 WAS'TEWATER NEWSLETT~R
43 It is Council consensus to notify rate payers of an increase via a wastewater newsletter. There were
44 several ideas suggested on what a wastewater newsletter should contain, what it should look like and how
45 it should be mailed. Some of those suggestions were to utilize the utility billing with the restricted space,
46 have a rolling announcement on Channe161 the Public Access channel, bulk mail, notice to be displayed
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on the bulletin board outside of the Water Department, post card style, print a message on the backside of
water billing envelope and also a full sized 8 1/2 x 11 newsletter.
David Ke11er - agrees with a full sized newsletter. It should be made attractive with graphics and
illustrations and use the space the water bills allow for reinforcement of any message.
Assistant City Manager Warren Salmons will bring back to the council a galley copy of an 8 1/2 x 11
newsletter.
ORD. 2031 NCS
7 ACRE PARK - GATT'I PROPERTY
Introduce Ordinance 2031 NCS authorizing the purchase of property for a 7 acre park located on the Gatti
property in the Corona-Ely area. The 7 acre park site would be~ split into Parcel one @ 2.5 acres, Parcel
two @ 2.5 acres; and Parcel three @ 2 acres. The City would purchase one parcel each year over the next
three years. and authorizing the City Manager to sign an option agreement which outlines the terms of the
purchase. Introduced by Matt Maguire, seconded by Nancy Read.
AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea,
NOES: None
ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
96
September 16, 1996 Vol. 30 Page 97
2 ORD. 2032 NCS
3 COItONA CR~EK REZONING 'p'O P~JI)
4
5 • Introduce Ordinance 2032 NCS making a finding of exemption from environmental procedures and
rezoning 10.96 acres from PUD to PUD. Introduced by Lori Shea, seconded by Nancy Read.
• AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
NOES: None
ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
I1 RESO. 96-271 NCS
12 C~RTIFIEI) UNIFI~D PROGRAM AGENCY
13
14 Resolution 96-271 NCS authorizing the Fire Department to become a Certified Unified Program Agency
15 and administer all of the elements of the Hazardous Materials Program. Introduced by Matt Maguire,
16 seconded by Jane Hamilton.
17 AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
18 NOES: None
19 ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
20
21 RESO. 96-272 NCS
22 LEAKING IJNI)ERGROUNI9 TANK I'ROGRAIVI
23
24 Resolution 96-272 NCS authorizing an agreement with Sonoma County regarding the Leaking
25 Underground Tank Program for site investigations and cleanup of sites where an underground storage
26 tank has leaked. Introduced by Matt Maguire, seconded by Jane Hamilton.
27 AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
28 NOES: None
29 ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
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3 ~ I2~S0. 96-273 NCS
32 SONOIVIA COUNT~' HAZAI2DOiJS MATE~2IAI,S INCIDEN'T ItESPONSE PLAN
33
34 Resolution 96-273 NCS adopting the Sonoma County Operational Area Hazardous Materials Incident
35 Response Plan. Introduced by Matt Maguire, seconded by Jane Hamilton.
36 AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
37 NOES: None
38 ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
39
, OR~D. 2033 NCS
REGiTLAT~ ~JNI)E12GRO~JND S'1'O12AGE 'I'AIeTK PROGRAIVI
. Introduce Ordinance 2033 NCS authorizing the ~'ire Department to regulate underground storage tanks
44 containing hazardous substances and underground storage tank cleanup. Introduced by Nancy Read,
45 seconded by 1Vlatt 1Vlaguire
46 AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
47 NOES: None
48 ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
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September 16, 1996
1tES0. 96-274 NCS
~IANGAR RENTAI. RATES
Resolution 96-274 NCS increasing the monthly tiedown, hangar and private hangar ground rental rates
effective October 1, 1996. Introduced by Lori Shea, seconded by Matt Maguire.
AYES: Maguire, Hamilton, Read, Shea, Vice Mayor Stompe
NOES: None
ABSENT: Barlas, Mayor Hilligoss
5-YEAIZ CIP SEWER SYSTEM
This item was moved to the October 7, 1996 meeting.
CLOSED SESSION
Pursuant to Government Code §54956.8 Conference with Real l~roperty Negotiator. McNear Branch of
the Boys and Girls Club, 426 8th Street. There was nothing to report.
PROPOSITION 217
TOP INCOME TAX BRACKETS. REINSTATEMENT
REVENUES TO LOCAL AGENCIES. INITIATIVE STATUTE
This item to be brought back in order for the City Attorney. to give his legal opinion regarding Council
support of this proposition.
ADJOURN
The meeting was adjourned to 7:00 p.m. September 30 in memory of former Councilman William Perry.
C~
Mary Stompe, Vice Mayor
ATT T:
Paulette Lyon, Deputy C' lerk
98